Post by Travis "Zombie" Mihm on Aug 27, 2014 1:32:41 GMT -5
I decided to start blabbing about my other hobbies haha.
Me and James were talking last night about guns, caliber selection, blah blah blah. Going back to Michigan means I get to pick up two of my favorite hobbies again; long range shooting, and reloading.
One of my earliest and most enjoyable hobbies has been shooting. I spent a lot of time throwing rounds down range with a BB gun. At 10, I bought my Red Ryder (and if I ever have kids, you bet your ass they're getting one). At 13, I bought a Daisy Grizzly bb/pellet gun. That quickly turned into "let's see how FAR away I can shoot the pop can" pretty soon I realized I'd need a scope to get better accuracy. Then pretty soon I realized I needed more power. Then pretty soon I realized I needed a bigger projectile and better ballistics. So I started throwing rounds down range with my dad's old Mossberg 22. When I turned 18, I bought my very first firearm for my birthday. A Marlin 925 .22LR bolt rifle. Within a year I was finding out that I could get to about 285 yards before the bullet ran out of steam and I ran out of scope adjustment AND hold-off on the scope haha. Remember in the movie, Shooter, when Bob Lee shoots the guys from 200 yards away with a .22? I was that kid. Although I seriously doubt a .22 could actually kill somebody from 200 yards, I could keep rounds in about a 5-6" spread. For me that was awesome. Buuuuut as always, never-enough-itis is a recurring issue in all of my hobbies. Eventually I started wondering what it would take to shoot something across the field; about 385 yards. I bought the cheapest thing I could find, a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R surplus rifle. It was terrible. After about $400-500, it was just slightly less terrible, but utterly terrible. So I sold it, built me a .308, and taught myself how to handload cheaper, more accurate ammunition!
Unfortunately, after my head injuries, I had to downsize. So I sold all of the guns I picked up over the last couple years, and traded the .308 for a handgun and cash. Later, I had to sell the handgun to my brother. But... now that I'm going back to michigan, it's time I pick up the trade again and start getting back into the rhythm of picking off very very small targets from very very far away. I found in time that reloading for whatever weapon system I was shooting was nearly therapeutic and brought about as much enjoyment to me as actually shooting the gun. I'm hoping that while I may be online less in a few weeks time here, that I'll be able to retain what little sanity I have left by improving my reloading skills and building a good long range weapon.
I don't like to brag, and I don't like to blow things out of proportion; this is very different to most guys in the shooting and especially long range shooting world haha. (A very beliggerent trash talker at work, when talking about long range shooting, quickly said that he'd regularly shoot 2" groups at 1000 yards) But I CAN say that I've practiced and shot enough to be pretty good at short to medium range, and was really getting into a rhythm with windage and elevation calculations; if it was within about 450 yards, I'd hit it. Whereas the guys at the range would brag about hitting the steel torso silhouette target at 400 yards, I'd quietly be shooting at the 6" bulls I stuck on the target board and keeping the rounds inside it for the better part of the day. When I took my at-the-time girlfriend to the range before selling the gun, on a windy cold day I put five rounds in a 4.25" group in swirling 0-15mph conditions. That's just a hair over 1 MOA and isn't anything to speak of with long range gurus and benchrest champs, but for me I was blown away. A 4.25" group at 400 yards with a shoestring budget used-gun build and real-life winter conditions will always be a good memory. Wish I kept that target, but when me and the lady broke up I pretty much threw away just about everything that was remotely associated with her. Suffice to say it was not a high-point of my life haha.
So anybody else with shooting and reloading experience around here or is interested in the sport, stay tuned. I've narrowed down my caliber choices, and I've narrowed down my make/model selections. Now to just come up with the scratch to drop on it. For now, when I get back to MI I'll dust of the old reloading equipment and get back into the game with my brothers 700 SPS in .22-250 at the farm.
I pretty much narrowed down my options using these basic parameters:
- I narrowed out small bolt face calibers; no 223 here.
- I wanted something affordable, which pretty much rules out big-cases, magnum calibers, long-action calibers, etc. So now we're sitting at a short action, and a large bolt face.
Once I figured that out, I've pinpointed the large(308) bolt face, short action calibers. Add to that the fact that I want a good long-range caliber, and I've ruled out a lot more calibers. Good ballistic coefficient, minimize powder consumption and affordability, easiest to shoot at range. One of the things I hated about my 308 was that my brother could keep up with me at short range in his 700 .22-250. The .22-250 is basically the .308s little brother and the .243's cousin. His gun was cheaper to shoot. His gun had about 1/3rd the recoil, so basically none. The 308 doesn't recoil hard, but it recoils, which means you have to manage it, and that puts more effort on the shooter behind the gun, because any slight sloppiness in recoil management and you've pulled the shot enough to be quite noticeable at and beyond 400 yards. The 308 also didn't shoot near as flat, and the .22-250 needed much less dope to compensate for wind or range. While not mattering much at a static 200 yard or 300 yard range, when you're bullshitting about and having contests to see who could shoot targets at unknown ranges, the 250 was hands-down easier. Less drop meant that if you were 30-40 yards off in your calculation at the longer 350+ range shots, you'd only shoot 1/2" low, instead of 1.5" low. Or if you were off in your wind estimation AND your range estimation, you'd miss by a total of about 2" instead of 4". If you're shooting at a pop can, this could mean the difference between eating free or buying the drinks. In woodchuck hunting, that's the difference between a hit and a miss!
So anyway, I've narrowed down my options. While I liked my .308, it's just not that "efficient". More recoil, more reloading cost, harder to shoot short range and gets outperformed by similar calibers in the long range that perform BETTER at short range. The .22-250 with proper bullet selection and the right twist barrel actually does better. You have to get into the real expensive bullets in 308 to achieve the same performance at 800 yards. Pointless. BUT, the 308 case is a very cheap option. After shooting the .308 and the .22-250 I've decided that I want to keep in the .308 family but drive a smaller bullet. That pretty much narrows me down to a .22-250, a 6-250, and a 7-08. Since we already have a 250 at the farm, we could share load data and consumables, and I already have the dies to reload. BUT. We already have a 250 at the farm, buying another would be... less fun. While the 6-250 is very appealing because it's unusual, the reloading cost is a tad higher for a very small margin in performance. The 7-08's recoil is ever so slightly higher than the 250. BUT, 7mm ballistics and the 7-08's new popularity mean that reloading costs are less than 308, consumables are readily available and inexpensive, and the long-range effectiveness outperforms the 308. It's on par with the .22-250 and the playing field remains pretty level except for energy. Could also go .243, as that is a very widely accepted but very unappreciated round for long range shooting.
Choices choices.
-Travis
Me and James were talking last night about guns, caliber selection, blah blah blah. Going back to Michigan means I get to pick up two of my favorite hobbies again; long range shooting, and reloading.
One of my earliest and most enjoyable hobbies has been shooting. I spent a lot of time throwing rounds down range with a BB gun. At 10, I bought my Red Ryder (and if I ever have kids, you bet your ass they're getting one). At 13, I bought a Daisy Grizzly bb/pellet gun. That quickly turned into "let's see how FAR away I can shoot the pop can" pretty soon I realized I'd need a scope to get better accuracy. Then pretty soon I realized I needed more power. Then pretty soon I realized I needed a bigger projectile and better ballistics. So I started throwing rounds down range with my dad's old Mossberg 22. When I turned 18, I bought my very first firearm for my birthday. A Marlin 925 .22LR bolt rifle. Within a year I was finding out that I could get to about 285 yards before the bullet ran out of steam and I ran out of scope adjustment AND hold-off on the scope haha. Remember in the movie, Shooter, when Bob Lee shoots the guys from 200 yards away with a .22? I was that kid. Although I seriously doubt a .22 could actually kill somebody from 200 yards, I could keep rounds in about a 5-6" spread. For me that was awesome. Buuuuut as always, never-enough-itis is a recurring issue in all of my hobbies. Eventually I started wondering what it would take to shoot something across the field; about 385 yards. I bought the cheapest thing I could find, a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R surplus rifle. It was terrible. After about $400-500, it was just slightly less terrible, but utterly terrible. So I sold it, built me a .308, and taught myself how to handload cheaper, more accurate ammunition!
Unfortunately, after my head injuries, I had to downsize. So I sold all of the guns I picked up over the last couple years, and traded the .308 for a handgun and cash. Later, I had to sell the handgun to my brother. But... now that I'm going back to michigan, it's time I pick up the trade again and start getting back into the rhythm of picking off very very small targets from very very far away. I found in time that reloading for whatever weapon system I was shooting was nearly therapeutic and brought about as much enjoyment to me as actually shooting the gun. I'm hoping that while I may be online less in a few weeks time here, that I'll be able to retain what little sanity I have left by improving my reloading skills and building a good long range weapon.
I don't like to brag, and I don't like to blow things out of proportion; this is very different to most guys in the shooting and especially long range shooting world haha. (A very beliggerent trash talker at work, when talking about long range shooting, quickly said that he'd regularly shoot 2" groups at 1000 yards) But I CAN say that I've practiced and shot enough to be pretty good at short to medium range, and was really getting into a rhythm with windage and elevation calculations; if it was within about 450 yards, I'd hit it. Whereas the guys at the range would brag about hitting the steel torso silhouette target at 400 yards, I'd quietly be shooting at the 6" bulls I stuck on the target board and keeping the rounds inside it for the better part of the day. When I took my at-the-time girlfriend to the range before selling the gun, on a windy cold day I put five rounds in a 4.25" group in swirling 0-15mph conditions. That's just a hair over 1 MOA and isn't anything to speak of with long range gurus and benchrest champs, but for me I was blown away. A 4.25" group at 400 yards with a shoestring budget used-gun build and real-life winter conditions will always be a good memory. Wish I kept that target, but when me and the lady broke up I pretty much threw away just about everything that was remotely associated with her. Suffice to say it was not a high-point of my life haha.
So anybody else with shooting and reloading experience around here or is interested in the sport, stay tuned. I've narrowed down my caliber choices, and I've narrowed down my make/model selections. Now to just come up with the scratch to drop on it. For now, when I get back to MI I'll dust of the old reloading equipment and get back into the game with my brothers 700 SPS in .22-250 at the farm.
I pretty much narrowed down my options using these basic parameters:
- I narrowed out small bolt face calibers; no 223 here.
- I wanted something affordable, which pretty much rules out big-cases, magnum calibers, long-action calibers, etc. So now we're sitting at a short action, and a large bolt face.
Once I figured that out, I've pinpointed the large(308) bolt face, short action calibers. Add to that the fact that I want a good long-range caliber, and I've ruled out a lot more calibers. Good ballistic coefficient, minimize powder consumption and affordability, easiest to shoot at range. One of the things I hated about my 308 was that my brother could keep up with me at short range in his 700 .22-250. The .22-250 is basically the .308s little brother and the .243's cousin. His gun was cheaper to shoot. His gun had about 1/3rd the recoil, so basically none. The 308 doesn't recoil hard, but it recoils, which means you have to manage it, and that puts more effort on the shooter behind the gun, because any slight sloppiness in recoil management and you've pulled the shot enough to be quite noticeable at and beyond 400 yards. The 308 also didn't shoot near as flat, and the .22-250 needed much less dope to compensate for wind or range. While not mattering much at a static 200 yard or 300 yard range, when you're bullshitting about and having contests to see who could shoot targets at unknown ranges, the 250 was hands-down easier. Less drop meant that if you were 30-40 yards off in your calculation at the longer 350+ range shots, you'd only shoot 1/2" low, instead of 1.5" low. Or if you were off in your wind estimation AND your range estimation, you'd miss by a total of about 2" instead of 4". If you're shooting at a pop can, this could mean the difference between eating free or buying the drinks. In woodchuck hunting, that's the difference between a hit and a miss!
So anyway, I've narrowed down my options. While I liked my .308, it's just not that "efficient". More recoil, more reloading cost, harder to shoot short range and gets outperformed by similar calibers in the long range that perform BETTER at short range. The .22-250 with proper bullet selection and the right twist barrel actually does better. You have to get into the real expensive bullets in 308 to achieve the same performance at 800 yards. Pointless. BUT, the 308 case is a very cheap option. After shooting the .308 and the .22-250 I've decided that I want to keep in the .308 family but drive a smaller bullet. That pretty much narrows me down to a .22-250, a 6-250, and a 7-08. Since we already have a 250 at the farm, we could share load data and consumables, and I already have the dies to reload. BUT. We already have a 250 at the farm, buying another would be... less fun. While the 6-250 is very appealing because it's unusual, the reloading cost is a tad higher for a very small margin in performance. The 7-08's recoil is ever so slightly higher than the 250. BUT, 7mm ballistics and the 7-08's new popularity mean that reloading costs are less than 308, consumables are readily available and inexpensive, and the long-range effectiveness outperforms the 308. It's on par with the .22-250 and the playing field remains pretty level except for energy. Could also go .243, as that is a very widely accepted but very unappreciated round for long range shooting.
Choices choices.
-Travis